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	<title>Comments on: Prisoners of our own delusion</title>
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	<link>http://www.d-n-i.net/dni/2008/07/04/prisoners-of-our-own-delusion/</link>
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	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 18:00:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Duncan Kinder</title>
		<link>http://www.d-n-i.net/dni/2008/07/04/prisoners-of-our-own-delusion/#comment-1462</link>
		<dc:creator>Duncan Kinder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 22:42:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.d-n-i.net/dni/?p=218#comment-1462</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Over reach, US is already there.&lt;/i&gt;


The parallels between the United States today and Hapsburg Spain are striking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Over reach, US is already there.</i></p>
<p>The parallels between the United States today and Hapsburg Spain are striking.</p>
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		<title>By: loggie20</title>
		<link>http://www.d-n-i.net/dni/2008/07/04/prisoners-of-our-own-delusion/#comment-1456</link>
		<dc:creator>loggie20</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 17:24:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I, too, see no threat to the MICC from Obama.

The issue will be critical as the effects of squandering nearly 4% of GDP for the past half century effect the ability to service debt to Japan and China as well as meet the needs of a demographic shift to more retirees, the needy aged.

The MICC' political influence will be paid in some shape or another.

Over reach, US is already there.

Our infratsructure is neglected while the US has the most expensive (profitable) over kill weapons imaginable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I, too, see no threat to the MICC from Obama.</p>
<p>The issue will be critical as the effects of squandering nearly 4% of GDP for the past half century effect the ability to service debt to Japan and China as well as meet the needs of a demographic shift to more retirees, the needy aged.</p>
<p>The MICC&#8217; political influence will be paid in some shape or another.</p>
<p>Over reach, US is already there.</p>
<p>Our infratsructure is neglected while the US has the most expensive (profitable) over kill weapons imaginable.</p>
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		<title>By: EmeryNelson</title>
		<link>http://www.d-n-i.net/dni/2008/07/04/prisoners-of-our-own-delusion/#comment-1452</link>
		<dc:creator>EmeryNelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 00:44:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Good to see Chuck Back. He's missed.

I remember Republican friends bitching about Kosovo and how questionable it was, yet stating that it was a "precedent". No one should be at all surprised at how this turned out. Listen to Barack Obama on the subject of intervention and apparently he's got some pet invasions of his own he'd like to undertake. We're doomed to eventually overreach German style.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good to see Chuck Back. He&#8217;s missed.</p>
<p>I remember Republican friends bitching about Kosovo and how questionable it was, yet stating that it was a &#8220;precedent&#8221;. No one should be at all surprised at how this turned out. Listen to Barack Obama on the subject of intervention and apparently he&#8217;s got some pet invasions of his own he&#8217;d like to undertake. We&#8217;re doomed to eventually overreach German style.</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.d-n-i.net/dni/2008/07/04/prisoners-of-our-own-delusion/#comment-1437</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 15:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.d-n-i.net/dni/?p=218#comment-1437</guid>
		<description>"this madness did not come about in a vacuum."

A though and rigorous introspection by Charles,
himself a patron saint of this following.

Charles who at this stage dosn't owe anybody,
or the country anything,  and having done well more than his share,  or could be reasonably expected of anyone.

I'm reminded of a segment in the movie Documentary "Why We Fight"  in which Charles
himself figures prominantly.

The passage,  and I find this most disturbing,
in relation to this discussion comes from one
Richard Pearl,  at the epicenter of
Neo-conservatism.

Sadly this dovetails with Spinney's message here today.

And if Pearl is right about this,  if little else,
I don't see much promise.  

It's difficult to judge, I don't know anyone personely who's particularly satisfied or impressed with the direction the country has taken the last many years.  

However,  as Charles says it's reasonable to say that most of the confidence in the American pepole to make sound decisions,  is at this stage been demonstrated to be highly questionable.  

let's be honest,   it's now come to the point where the choices have been religated to Dumb, and Dumber.

You can blame the system,
the media,  the political parties,  the military ind. complex,  but to do so to some degree abrigates the responsibilty at the individual level.  The last sentence might serve as the epitath for the American dream.
 
Here's what Pearl had to say,  and in as much as
we're inspired,   recognize,  admire,  and respect Spinney's motives and perspectives being the polar opposite,  the statements dovetail in a most disturbing parallel.

I'm doing this from memory so I hope I get it exactly right.

"One of the sillier notions,  and you hear this all the time,  is that US foreign policy has somehow been hijacked by a handful of people."

"And once their gone,  we'll go back to the way things were (Pre-911).  Nothing could be further from the truth,   the world's changed,  and we've changed as a people,   and we're not going back."
 
MC

&lt;em&gt;[CR:  Charles?  Don't think I've ever heard him called that before.]&lt;/em&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;this madness did not come about in a vacuum.&#8221;</p>
<p>A though and rigorous introspection by Charles,<br />
himself a patron saint of this following.</p>
<p>Charles who at this stage dosn&#8217;t owe anybody,<br />
or the country anything,  and having done well more than his share,  or could be reasonably expected of anyone.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m reminded of a segment in the movie Documentary &#8220;Why We Fight&#8221;  in which Charles<br />
himself figures prominantly.</p>
<p>The passage,  and I find this most disturbing,<br />
in relation to this discussion comes from one<br />
Richard Pearl,  at the epicenter of<br />
Neo-conservatism.</p>
<p>Sadly this dovetails with Spinney&#8217;s message here today.</p>
<p>And if Pearl is right about this,  if little else,<br />
I don&#8217;t see much promise.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s difficult to judge, I don&#8217;t know anyone personely who&#8217;s particularly satisfied or impressed with the direction the country has taken the last many years.  </p>
<p>However,  as Charles says it&#8217;s reasonable to say that most of the confidence in the American pepole to make sound decisions,  is at this stage been demonstrated to be highly questionable.  </p>
<p>let&#8217;s be honest,   it&#8217;s now come to the point where the choices have been religated to Dumb, and Dumber.</p>
<p>You can blame the system,<br />
the media,  the political parties,  the military ind. complex,  but to do so to some degree abrigates the responsibilty at the individual level.  The last sentence might serve as the epitath for the American dream.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s what Pearl had to say,  and in as much as<br />
we&#8217;re inspired,   recognize,  admire,  and respect Spinney&#8217;s motives and perspectives being the polar opposite,  the statements dovetail in a most disturbing parallel.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m doing this from memory so I hope I get it exactly right.</p>
<p>&#8220;One of the sillier notions,  and you hear this all the time,  is that US foreign policy has somehow been hijacked by a handful of people.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;And once their gone,  we&#8217;ll go back to the way things were (Pre-911).  Nothing could be further from the truth,   the world&#8217;s changed,  and we&#8217;ve changed as a people,   and we&#8217;re not going back.&#8221;</p>
<p>MC</p>
<p><em>[CR:  Charles?  Don't think I've ever heard him called that before.]</em></p>
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		<title>By: gracat</title>
		<link>http://www.d-n-i.net/dni/2008/07/04/prisoners-of-our-own-delusion/#comment-1436</link>
		<dc:creator>gracat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 14:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.d-n-i.net/dni/?p=218#comment-1436</guid>
		<description>Eisenhower and Kennan's cautions remind me how terribly short sighted the government and the people can be.  David Hackworth used to call it the DRSS. "Don't Remember Shit Syndrome".

Lessons learned are politicized and/or forgotten!  I understand the Army has a new 720 page history of the Iraq War out.  I know I will not be able to read it but I am sure it is not as helpful as it could be.

Lastly.  We went through a BAD oil crisis twice in the seventies.  No lessons learned? I mentioned this to some of my co-workers 20-50 year olds.  They knew not of what I spoke.

Good to hear from Chuck Spinney.  A man who, I am sure, is enjoying his boat and retirement.

&lt;em&gt;[CR: From all signs, this appears to be the case.]&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eisenhower and Kennan&#8217;s cautions remind me how terribly short sighted the government and the people can be.  David Hackworth used to call it the DRSS. &#8220;Don&#8217;t Remember Shit Syndrome&#8221;.</p>
<p>Lessons learned are politicized and/or forgotten!  I understand the Army has a new 720 page history of the Iraq War out.  I know I will not be able to read it but I am sure it is not as helpful as it could be.</p>
<p>Lastly.  We went through a BAD oil crisis twice in the seventies.  No lessons learned? I mentioned this to some of my co-workers 20-50 year olds.  They knew not of what I spoke.</p>
<p>Good to hear from Chuck Spinney.  A man who, I am sure, is enjoying his boat and retirement.</p>
<p><em>[CR: From all signs, this appears to be the case.]</em></p>
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